Below is a transcript of an online chat in the Spring of 2002 between Alice and graduate students in Ann Murray's distance education course on Infant Behavior and Development offered at Kansas State University.

alice_eberhart_wright: I've seen it earlier. I had a baby in my parent/infant group who really started biting kids at about 10 months.

CM: did the biting have a purpose?

alice_eberhart_wright: Not that we could see.

AM: was there something in that child’s history that was unusual?

alice_eberhart_wright: No, he was the child of a professional and had excellent parenting, but
he was unusually quiet early on.

CM: maybe he was just on other people's arms.

AL: Ouch!

CM: and getting lots of attention for it.

alice_eberhart_wright: This was more than teething. His mother had to watch him like a
hawk.

AL: Would it be provoked or just random?

alice_eberhart_wright: I always wondered what happened to him. I also had a child in my
therapeutic preschool who supposedly became aggressive at 6 months. He called himself "me
bad teeth" at 2.

CM: 6 months?!

alice_eberhart_wright: Both of these kids were totally unpredictable.

alice_eberhart_wright: With D. at 2, we tried tons of things before we got him stopped.

CM: what worked?

alice_eberhart_wright: I hated it but we had to isolate him in a room by himself. I don't think I
would do that now. We tried a teething ring, candy in his mouth, lots of play around how
biting hurt people.,

AM: so kind of like timeout?

CM: maybe isolating him reduced the reinforcement he was getting for biting

alice_eberhart_wright: Later I went to having one on ones using students and volunteers who
could read behavior and stop it before it happened.

AM: sometimes behavioral methods like that have to be used to break the cycle of
bad behavior.

alice_eberhart_wright: We just isolated him for a few minutes but he was terrified of being in
a room alone.

CM: that's not legal, anyway, is it? doesn't he have to be in sight at all times?

alice_eberhart_wright: I'm too empathic now and want to use positive techniques.

alice_eberhart_wright: I'm sure it is illegal now. Those were the old days.

CM: we had a biter in a preschool I worked in and would have liked to have been
able to isolate him, but weren't allowed to.
 
alice_eberhart_wright: I think you have to watch children like a hawk.
 
CM: at least not by him/herself

AW: We have an 11 month old that is biting. It didn't seem purposeful at first but
now it seems pretty deliberate.

AM: under what circumstances does he bite, Angie?

alice_eberhart_wright: Biting is really quite normal. I have some good materials on it. But it
sure is frustrating and painful and upsets other parents a greal deal.

AW: When he wants a toy or book from somebody.

CM: yeah, I have always said that if I could find a cure for biting, I would be rich.

AW: We have started giving him a teething ring. The mother isn't helping much.
She really blows it out of proportion.

alice_eberhart_wright: With young toddlers and older infants, I think you just have to see the
mouth opening and turn the head, saying quite firmly, "No biting."

TF: Yes, short, firm,simple words are needed.

AM: you really have to be vigilant, i guess.

alice_eberhart_wright: D.'s therapist's arms were covered with bites. He wasn't good at
reading the signs. I never got bitten by D.

RH: So the teacher must intervene quickly before the biting occurs.

AM: what were the signs? are the signs different for each child?
 
alice_eberhart_wright: You watch the face and the mouth opening and moving toward a body
part.

CM: you need enough teachers in a classroom to be able to give it that much
attention.

AL: with older toddlers, there is sometimes some sort of noise (arguing) before the
bite, but not always

alice_eberhart_wright: I had a volunteer for every very aggressive child. Yes, aggression is a
big problem in child care.

MC: is it hard to find volunteers?

AM: how do they cope with it?

AL: did the volunteer pretty much follow the child around, or did they participate
in the classroom keeping an extra eye on the child?

alice_eberhart_wright: This was quite awhile ago, but you would be surprised at how many
people you can get through training programs, church groups, retired teacher groups, etc. I
told convincing stories and made the volunteers know how important they were. I had 4 staff
and 40 volunteers.

MC: Wow that's impressive

JG: wow! incredible!

CM: that's amazing

alice_eberhart_wright: I assigned volunteers exclusively to one child or one mother and baby.

alice_eberhart_wright: We had potluck dinners every week and they came to staff meetings.
Our center was very much of a family with everyone tightly involved with one another.

CM: that's cool

MC: neat

alice_eberhart_wright: This was the first therapeutic preschool in KS and I started it at
Topeka State Hospital in 1969.

AL: That would help them feel involved, important, and "in the loop"

RH: Is this approach effective with children with disabilities? Seems like the child
must have fully functioning cognitive abilities.

alice_eberhart_wright: Our youngest child was 11 days old.

alice_eberhart_wright: We took any child who had a problem so some of our children would
have been diagnosed with other things.

AL: did each child/parent baby have a volunteer or was it just the ones with
aggression problems?

CM: what problem did an 11 day old child have?

MC: did you see a vast improvement throughout the year?

CM: or did you anticipate problems because you already knew the parent?

alice_eberhart_wright: It depended on who needed it but we tried to always have someone
working with parent/child pairs individually.

AL: that is really neat!

alice_eberhart_wright: We had a number of chronically mentally ill mothers, so that's how we
got the youngest infants.

AM: did you train the volunteers?

CM: oh, I see

alice_eberhart_wright: Yes, we all thought up techniques and had constant training and
support from a number of people in the psychiatric community.

CM: sounds like infant-parent psychotherapy

alice_eberhart_wright: We did anything and everything that worked - parent/infant
psychotherapy, family therapy, multi-family groups, educational classrooms, play therapy.
Each family had whatever they needed.

AM: are you advocating any of these techniques with the programs that you visit
now?  And who is qualified to carry them out?

RH: Were the families referred for therapy from other sources/agencies? Or did
they seek your help individually?

alice_eberhart_wright: Definitely. I feel that we did 30 years ago has just come of age, and
new knowledge is growing hourly.

alice_eberhart_wright: We had families who came on their own, were referred by SRS, the
court system, the Health Clinic, etc. Everything. A wonderful mix.

alice_eberhart_wright: We formed reading groups, sought out our own education, had a
famous consultant for about 3 hours a week.

JG: I think that those techniques are needed now even more so that 30 years
ago. Do you feel that the parents and volunteers would be as actively involved today as they
were then?

AM: who was the consultant that was famous?

MC: do you see improvement throughout the year?

alice_eberhart_wright: Our consultant was Dr. Paulina Kernberg, the psychiatrist who
evaluated Elian Gonzalez.

AM: Really!! I bet that was a learning experience.

alice_eberhart_wright: Sometimes progress was very slow. With our most difficult families, we
worked 5 days a week for as much as 5 years.

AM: All day long?

alice_eberhart_wright: No, they weren't there all day - usually for 2 1/2 to 3 hours. We had a
parent room that was open to parents at all times during business hours.

alice_eberhart_wright: I keep a scrapbook where I write up things I see or hear about children
who were in our program. I presented a longterm follow-up on one family in Finland a few
years ago. The Pot of Gold at the End of the Rainbow.

AM: Sounds like a happy ending.

RH: That seems like a lot of time each week parents are able to come in.

AM: were parents always a part of the therapy?

AL: was the parent room like a lounge or a resource library or what?

alice_eberhart_wright: We only required daily participation of family members if children
were under 3 and part of the time could be spent by extended family members. I would have to
adjust that now because of welfare reform.

alice_eberhart_wright: We were in a huge old building and it was a big room with tables,
chairs, couches, a piano, books, art supplies.

MC: how long are the children in your program?

alice_eberhart_wright: Time varied according to needs and availability of the family. Some
were there for a few months. Some, 5 years. One mother still writes to me after having had her
daughter in our program nearly 30 years ago for a few months.

MC: have you ever checked up on the children who have graduated from your
program to see how they have progressed?

alice_eberhart_wright: There are tragic stories about some of our children. An unusual
number of early deaths I think. Others have done quite well. Some were in residential
treatment programs. Some were in drug treatment. Some had different diagnoses as they got
older.

AM: so do you think your program would be as successful now if the parents were not
as involved?

TF: Are there programs like these still around? Two to three hours is a long time, it
would be great for parents to participate and learn.

alice_eberhart_wright: There is a wonderful program in Scottsbluff, NE where parents begin
the day with a parenting class, go into classrooms with their children, have lunch and discuss
their experiences and then go to a job or training program in the afternoon.

AM: Alice, do you see any children now in Early Head Start that could use these
intensive services?

JG: I'm just curious as to who funds a program such as the one in Scottsbluff? It
sounds great!

alice_eberhart_wright: Definitely there are children who still need the services, and some of
the EHS (Early Head Start) programs develop amazing programs to fit the needs of children and families. EHS is
paid for by federal funding although we have state funded programs also in KS.

AM: does Early Head Start have money for mental health services to the children?

alice_eberhart_wright: Each program writes into their budget what they need. They are all
required to see that children and families have access to whatever they need. A big focus on
building community partnerships.

AM: are they able to get what they need?
 
alice_eberhart_wright: No, many can't find services. I'm working on exploring more distance
consultation, use of video, etc.

AM: great idea! Tele- mental health?

alice_eberhart_wright: I tell people they have to grow their own, the way I and my staff did.

JG: Do you know if the early Head Start teachers have to be certified teachers?

alice_eberhart_wright: EHS teachers have to get an Infant/Toddler CDA within a year of
being hired or have other course work that is specifically geared to train people about the
needs of very young children.

AM: isn't there going to be a requirement that they get an associates degree or a
bachelor's degree at some point?

alice_eberhart_wright: Yes, by 2003 50% of teachers must have at least an AA.

AL: that is 50% of teachers in each program, right?

AM: by when do 100 percent have to have it?

alice_eberhart_wright: Yes.

alice_eberhart_wright: I can't remember if they have set 100 % yet.

JG: I was just curious because I feel that I would enjoy working with young
children, their families, and community agencies, instead of the classroom environment.

AM: I am sort of amazed that a higher level of education has not been required
sooner than this.

CM: is that just for KS or nationwide?

alice_eberhart_wright: There are lots of job possibilities out there. Home visiting takes a lot of
skills, and there are training coordinator positions that work on child care partnerships.
 
TF: JG ,the county infant toddler programs work with families, community
agencies and children birth to 3 years.

JG: Yes, I'm familiar with Infant/Toddler Services, but they currently don't have
any openings.

AM: Bummer.Maybe something will come up in the future.

AM: well, I just noticed that it is after 8:00.

alice_eberhart_wright: Yes, it's getting dark!

AM: we should let Alice go. Thank you very much Alice for coming to talk to us
tonight.

AL: Thank you Alice!

CM: thank you!

AL: it was a great discussion!

alice_eberhart_wright: I enjoyed it. Wish I could see all of you. This is the first time I've been
on a chat room.

TF: Thank you Alice!

AW: thank you

RH: thank you.

CM: takes some getting used to, doesn't it

AM: This has been a new experience then!!

alice_eberhart_wright: Definitely. Goodbye. Have a good week.
 
 

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